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Post by SteveKowalski on May 7, 2015 10:34:08 GMT -5
"Could over harvesting be a minor factor as well? I know this should not be an issue in the park due to regulations, but it is not like people follow rules." nor do mergansers... I still vote - they were a major factor
Especially when you consider it started 2 winters ago. There would be a major hole in the amout of fish that would be 10 in. or so, now
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Post by Doug Pennyloff on May 7, 2015 10:55:18 GMT -5
I was under the impression that the mergansers hit spring not oatka. Was it both?
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Post by jeffraz on May 7, 2015 16:31:47 GMT -5
There are a lot of theories, but the park fish are gone just like the Spring Brook fish. I heard of a Caledonia resident who witnessed mergansers in squads of 50-70 eat fish on Spring. I am going to call the DEC tomorrow. I will let you know what they say/know.
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Post by mikereynolds on May 7, 2015 19:16:26 GMT -5
Both seem to be hurting. I think the best thing that can be done is for nature to run it's course. The habitat is there and populations will rebound. The last solution I'd like to see is stocking.
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Post by Nick Pionessa on May 8, 2015 13:06:49 GMT -5
i would like to have the DEC take this tragedy and turn it around by stocking heritage strain NY brook trout in spring creek. provided there isn't something systematic wrong. it would likely only take one stocking and maybe closing the creek for a year or two. how cool would it be to restore the creek with it's native fish?
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Post by RileyVacinek on May 8, 2015 13:37:11 GMT -5
That is a killer idea nick. Certainly would take some lobbying. I saw an article in one of the Adirondack magazines that pointed out the fact that Browns and bows are invasives. Certainly a step in the right direction. It would be cool as hell to fish to extremely selective Brookies on a spring creek. It would go from being just unique stream for ny to a unique stream for the U.S.
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Post by jeffraz on May 8, 2015 15:13:53 GMT -5
Good idea, Nick. I contacted the DEC this morning to discuss the issue. They are strong proponents of the merganser theory. They have hatchery employees that witnessed the birds eating fish on Spring. I discussed hazing and/or killing of these winged mother fuckers and was told that it isn't an option. Killing/harassing birds will piss off other interest groups. Any kind of substance that would keep the birds away was met with the obvious stream contaminant issue. I asked why the birds don't fly south as well. He said that the only reason for them to fly south would be for open water. In other words, why fly south when Spring and Oakta are ice free all winter? He suggested fishing somewhere else and let Mother Nature play it out. His theory is that once the fish aren't worth the effort anymore due to limited numbers the birds will find open water somewhere else or fly south. Closing these streams to fishing was scoffed at because once again, other interest groups will get pissed. The more people involved, the harder it is to manage. He did state that no kill fisheries are good ideas, but overpopulating can occur. For those of us who fish the park, we know that this isn't the case because there were usually ample numbers of fish that rose that represented different year classes. This was, in my opinion, a placation attempt at best...give them the pill, hope they swallow it. So...we are where we are. Since the DEC will not officially close these streams it is paramount that we spread the word that fishing to whatever is left is unethical. Please spread this ever-important idea. Thanks, gents.
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Post by byronfishpaw on May 10, 2015 9:31:46 GMT -5
Who did you speak to at DEC?
The overpopulation concern is um, interesting...I could see stocking resulting in over population. However, I would think a streams carrying capacity (food, habitat, water quality) would control the numbers of naturally reproducing fish in it.
There is a lot of other open water for birds to access in winter round here. Lake O, Niagara River, Finger Lakes. Odd that all of a sudden, after hundreds / thousands of years (??), the birds decide to eat on Spring.
I'd be interested in some water sampling of Spring up and downstream of hatchery.
It's obviously true once the Trout population declines the birds go elsewhere. Just like us.
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Post by jeffraz on May 10, 2015 16:48:37 GMT -5
Good points for sure. I covered all of that with him. I apologize for not remembering the man's name. There are holes in the bird theory. Some folks believe it because their sources saw actual observances of birds eating fish. Mergansers feed on small fish and in relatively shallow water (streams, tailwaters). I was told the Niagara's shorelines froze in spots over the last two winters so the mergansers' food sources went deep which subsequently meant that the birds couldn't dive for them. I am not saying I believe it; it is just another theory. Sadly, the DEC isn't going to do anything proactive unless they are pushed and pressured. They are fearful of backlash from other interest groups. Let's hope that they will go elsewhere now that the Oakta/Spring fish are nearly gone.
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Post by BillWachtel on May 10, 2015 20:46:12 GMT -5
Mergansers will kill fish up to 12 inches, yes 12 inches. They are amazing fish eaters. Fast and deadly. I don't give the chemical contamination being the issue. The bugs would be gone as well. There are fish in the streams. Big ones, the ones you catch by luck or during the summer at night. But the population is a fraction of what it used to be. Even on private water I don't them in the numbers like we have in the past.
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