Spey Fly Help

[B.Ingersoll]

Appreciate help cretique from spey fly tiers.
Sticking w) Syd G. style. Hackle tip wings and Schlappen hackle.
Interested in proper proportions.
Will counter wire wrap for fishing durability.
Pretty good at feather wings from former streamer tying. Have not spent much time w) spey hackle, proportions for such etc.......and when/what little I did was a dozen years ago.

This one all hackle other than wing is stripped one side, as I quickly learned to full,webby with out.........also made it an easier quicker tie.

This one is, flat silver butt 1 turn, chartruse wool , white slf, flat silver rib (large) countered silver wire, stripped schlappen white collar 2 turn, same mallard flank, 4 hackle olive wing from a Chinese neck on AJ #3 standard wire...........fishy.....dace,emerald shinier colors. After set wraps on wing I add 1 tiny drop of super glue per dub needle to stem tie in, then cont. wrap finish.......for fishing durability.

Is the AJ 1.5 hook with in 1/2" gap code? Measured this one and think it would be.

Pretty sparse 2 1/2" pattern. Much like a feather wing streamer on sz. 6 x 6x or 4 x 4x. Thought I could tie some on lighter wire for Trout too.

God forbid I actually fish some spey flies on my spey rods (chuckle).

Bit of a feather rather than fur/hair kick. Thought I would fill a box w) these and some larger 2x marabou's with saddle tails for added length to 3" ish and give them all a go for Steel. along with Trout & Smallies with proper wire hook.

Seems like the one above would be "o.k." if the dang hackle were not so web by.........it's sparser by eye than photo's.

I really like Charlies purple hackle wing spey under his fly's .

Thanks!

[B.Ingersoll]

Mahoney ----- the wing color is slightly off the rest per spec.
sz 3
Better Schlappen

[Nick Pionessa]

i modified your post to get the photos in line going down instead of across.

i think the flies look good for the most part. as we talked about i'm not a fan of tying in the schlappen by the butt but as you said it may swim better. for me the look cancels out any benefit for the fish but i could be wrong.

i like the size of the wings better on the orange one. not the fact that it's just two feathers but that the feathers are smaller so they are tied in further from the tip. tying in the wing closer to the butt of the feather helps with the overall shape and allows a little more web at the base.

did you burn the hackle on the last one? i like the look however it was done better than the top ones. just for me try tying one with the hackle tied in by the tip.

all in all great flies for fishing and for your first attempts, damn good.

[Frank Swarner]

Nice work they will all fish well for you.

I like to use smaller feathers for the wings as Nick suggested. A chinese neck, Indian cock saddle, and hen capes if the feathers have pointy tips. If you like your wings vertical and not tented you will be fine with hackle tips. If you want to tent them you will have better luck with what I suggested. The reason being is that when tying in the smaller feathers it is near the base of the feather where the stem is softer = won't roll as much. The hackle tips are almost solid and the stem is smaller = tendency to roll or sit on its side.

Like you, I prefer tying in the schlappen by the butt with one side stripped. I find it stretches the fly out a tad. I also prefer that hackle taper when going for a crayfish look. Does it matter to the fish, I don't know, but I do know both ways catch fish.

[B.Ingersoll]

oops..........i don't know what just happen........weird

[B.Ingersoll]

Jan 29, 2012 9:37:51 GMT -5 Nick Pionessa said:

i modified your post to get the photos in line going down instead of across.

i think the flies look good for the most part. as we talked about i'm not a fan of tying in the schlappen by the butt but as you said it may swim better. for me the look cancels out any benefit for the fish but i could be wrong.

i like the size of the wings better on the orange one. not the fact that it's just two feathers but that the feathers are smaller so they are tied in further from the tip. tying in the wing closer to the butt of the feather helps with the overall shape and allows a little more web at the base.

did you burn the hackle on the last one? i like the look however it was done better than the top ones. just for me try tying one with the hackle tied in by the tip.

Strange, the photo's were shown across for me but thanks.

I am still attempting to understand what your suggesting with the wings?

This is not correct -"not the fact that it's just two feathers" (you D.H. ! pal ) They are both four hackle from Chinese Necks. Being chinese necks they would be more transparent (zero web) if two only. Just because one feather is bong'ed a bit and may look like two.......trust me they are four . We could wager $50 and I will bring them to you (chuckle) to see,tear apart .....what ever........then I will order some Blue Eared Pheasant with the profit! Bet on? The hot orange wing is actually slightly wider than the olive though a touch shorter over all. I chose one width wider for profile. Shown it is likely still slightly moist. I moisten all four together once prep'ed ready to go, and tie in at once. Something, I did/do from Streamer's for a lot of years. If you happen to pluck a bit more wire'y, tough feather's from the neck it helps manage,train,etc.........seems to me anyways.........may just be habit at the point to.

The better hackle is not burnt. I just found it in the back ...........it made a HUGE difference.

I will try reverse hackle tie. From what I read traditionally spays are tied via butt first and with schlappen I question the length tip first. Right now on the Mahoney, I am just going per script. The latter one has tag,tip,flat,round, rear red floss body and the front is split red floss with red dub in loop.

Keep em comm'in thanks

Edit BTW- Think I am going to have to get some Blue Eared Pheasant pal. Not sure I am patient enough to deal with digging through Schlappen, burning it, etc. I have tried the Dec hand burn thing enough now that "not for me".

[B.Ingersoll]

Jan 29, 2012 10:36:12 GMT -5 Frank Swarner said:

Nice work they will all fish well for you.

I like to use smaller feathers for the wings as Nick suggested. A chinese neck, Indian cock saddle, and hen capes if the feathers have pointy tips. If you like your wings vertical and not tented you will be fine with hackle tips. If you want to tent them you will have better luck with what I suggested. The reason being is that when tying in the smaller feathers it is near the base of the feather where the stem is softer = won't roll as much. The hackle tips are almost solid and the stem is smaller = tendency to roll or sit on its side.

Like you, I prefer tying in the schlappen by the butt with one side stripped. I find it stretches the fly out a tad. I also prefer that hackle taper when going for a crayfish look. Does it matter to the fish, I don't know, but I do know both ways catch fish.

Hey Frank, I appreciate the time for your thoughts reply,etc.

Yea, In my brief understanding, history I tend to think the Syd style wings may have been tented. I like this but, per past experience find Chinese necks kind of nasty to deal with tented. I am pretty good at it with hen, like hen off a metz hen neck.........don't know why but, maybe you just answered that?
Vertical is fine for now and I like a baitfish look..

The latter is basically better because i took the time to find a good spey hackle which I will need to be much more picky with I guess.

I need to do some larger profiles. These are pretty skinny (sz.3) in reality and have less profile than a hair wing on a sz. 4 TMC 9394 as example.

Open to other patterns.

For kicks I want to fill a box and fish them along with Marabous (for larger profile) predominately , year round for a while. Have done similar with other styles in past and it's fun,educational........brings in some new blood to an old game. I have 3 rather traditional actioned spey rods and have not even swung one "spey" on them yet (chuckle)......some marabous , hair wings, buck tails but, likely 95% tubes .....ha,ha.........also "fun". Swing two hand for Trout too..........so I want to do some on lighter wire, same size (or bigger) and use for that and River Smallmouth too. Seems the vertical hackle tip wings are a bit more bait fishy to me than other style and also move,swim more in water.

At some point I would like to do some traditional Syd styles to the tee as I really like them. Also some tent wing and strip wings. Not real interested in the bronze mallard lower profile style as yet.......like I said the other style seem a little more bait fish like rather than shrimp / buggy to me.

I will have to tie up one of your crayfish types this summer for river smalls though and I do have hen pheasant skin and materials for such.

Thanks!...............hopefully head'in over to a nice lil winter steelhead creek this pm,

[Nick Pionessa]

for the wings, just using a smaller/shorter feather for the size of the hook so that you are tying in the feather closer to the butt of the stem. as Frank mentioned, they tie in easier at the fatter part of the stem and the feather fibers are a bit fuller near the base of the stem. really splitting hairs on any of this but it is the details that make the fly.

the original speys are all tied butt first but the look always bothered me. i don't think either way is a big deal. the butt first gives more fibers behind the hook bend and may be better for fishing. i simply never liked the look and if i can't look good then i have no business being out there. everyone who fishes with me will know what a joke that is.

BEP is great stuff no doubt but really not the right material for this type of fly. more suited to a hackle on the front half of the body than palmered full. probably doesn't have a long enough stem either for a full palmer. flies that originally used heron are better suited to BEP.

[B.Ingersoll]

Did not go fishing.........working on a bathroom

Still don't get the wing part but, can say personally if anything I would like a broader wing yet still for fishing as, these patterns are pretty sparse.

B.E.P. palmer - yea, that would be easier and faster than this plus look better with my eye. I just started here because I had stuff and it was on a DVD. That one with the split floss loop, floss full palmer is a little project. Still want vertical hackle tip wings for moment and profile though.........after all these is a bait fishy area rather than a shrimp area.

Do you have B.E.P. in stock? Colors? Length? Need a size bigger hook to. Gonna bleach some shlap latter and see what happens.

Thanks!