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Post by SteveKowalski on Dec 11, 2012 17:36:31 GMT -5
The photo came out a little weird I think the focus is on the far side mallard collar (I'll re-shoot when I get a chance)  looking for opinions on this one. (big) Tails (like this) are not traditional... This tail is short white hackle tips tented with teal. Charlie doesn't say shit when I showed him this "spey" (he IS a polite bastard  ) so I'm poking him. and the rest of you. I personally like to have a decent tail on a lot of flys to fight against the butt end hang down (see vid below) speypages.com/speyclave/showthread.php?t=27354The Caroline looks like its on a pretty beefy hook swinging in pretty fast currant - there is a lot of butt drag. I don't like it, but those flys have been catching fish for a hundred years. and Im sure a different combination of hook weight/hackle/water speed will make them swim more flat. Bueller? Bueller? Jim Kinner video man? Wanna film different fly styles? |
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Post by jeffraz on Dec 11, 2012 21:06:28 GMT -5
Steve,
Great idea you have there. As you alluded to in your post, traditional speys don't have tails, however, fly tying is a creative endeavor. I cannot tell what size that spey is, but smaller Caroline-like speys could work with a tail of philaplume in a natural color. Unlike long marabou feathers these plumes would have to be tied on in a clump eliminating the elegance that we love in speys. Movement, however, would increase (some Michigan hex nymph patterns employ this method). Another option would be to make a longer wing that extends past the bend of the hook. Fox, marabou, coyote, or even ram's wool would make a longer wing that extends far back near the bend where a tail would be. I had some success on the old Ferry Canyon Spey that Randall Kaufmann developed in the 1980's. I tied it with a longer wing, some with white fox and some with white marabou. She is certainly not traditional but a l fish catcher for sure. I hope this helps and I appreciate your willingness to tie "outside the box."
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Post by Frank Swarner on Dec 12, 2012 13:51:42 GMT -5
Go with it!! I actually like longer GP crest tails on married wings because to me it looks better and has better action in the water. Same thing on some of the Dee flies I tie. I don't think it helps with the bend of the hook raiding more parallel in the water though. Probably due to the material itself.
Why does the hook bend hanging down/butt drag bother you?
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Post by NickConwall on Dec 12, 2012 20:05:56 GMT -5
I like it it to, made me thinking (uh oh, helmets everyone) if you were to tie out two opposing feathers side by side as a tail" rudder" fashion ( i.e) tied in vertically as to horizontally you may get some good side to side wobble from that fly; sorta like a hinged Rapala wiggle in the water.
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Post by SteveKowalski on Dec 13, 2012 11:24:46 GMT -5
Frank,
It just bugs me... I always think the materials should flow down the hook shank when its swimming, just like in the vice.
I know there is always going to be some ass droop, but like in the video, that much really makes the hook stand out.
- not like the stupid fish can't see the hook anyway, but to me it looks illdesigned, as well as pretty snaggy - fish and/or bottom.
Somewhere I saw a vid of a swimming full dressed Jock Scott (Speypages too?)
That thing swims awesome.
One factor in keeping the hook in line could be the ostrich herl butt, back close to the tail. I think that can give ass-lift and is "designed" into fly not just for looks.
and your right about GP crest tails, really cool when in the right currant they wiggle like a friggin twister tail.
Jeff, Nick
I have seen a fly recipe that called for a 2 hackle tip tail, tied vertical with the curve in the same direction, so it would wiggle. I think it was a muddler/sculpin.
This one has them vertical, cup to cup so it is square off the back of the hook. Horizontal would give more lift, but not look as cool.
Steve
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Post by Charlie Dickson on Dec 13, 2012 15:02:21 GMT -5
I didn't bust on it because it is a well tied fly. And besides, many of the flies I tie in the “spey style” are far from traditional. Like Jeff said “fly tying is a creative endeavor”. Do what you think is right and what you like (and what catch’s fish).
As for the tail hanging down on the swing thing, that bothers me sometimes. Bait fish don’t swim with their ass-end hanging down like that. However, it doesn’t bother me enough that I won’t fish them. A shitpile of fish are caught on those flies so it is hard to argue with success.
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Post by Nick Pionessa on Dec 13, 2012 22:26:19 GMT -5
well, just to be a smart ass, the Lady Caroline has a tail.  |
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Post by SteveKowalski on Dec 14, 2012 14:13:03 GMT -5
yes it does, a puny one.
When I tie Caroline -ish It's usually on either 200R or A.J. spey hooks that are (seem to me) lighter wire than the hook in the video.
And I think a decent amount of palmered body hackle (vs. just a collar) helps minimize ass-hang
fly tying is a creative endeavor - true, I probably put too much into fly engineering
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Post by Brent Elliott on Dec 14, 2012 15:54:46 GMT -5
who cares what's traditional!!  ....well, I guess some people do. But that looks fishy to me. I think those tails will wiggle around and add some more life to the pattern. I'm not saying it needs it, as it looks great to me!!! post a pic when you get your first fish on that! Brent |
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Post by B.Ingersoll on Dec 19, 2012 11:48:23 GMT -5
I did not read the details but, I luv the pattern/tie for traditional stuff.
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) so I'm poking him. and the rest of you.
....well, I guess some people do. But that looks fishy to me. I think those tails will wiggle around and add some more life to the pattern. I'm not saying it needs it, as it looks great to me!!! post a pic when you get your first fish on that!