DEC meeting Spring & Oatka

[johnbenish]

Nick, thanks for reporting. I was obviously unable to go. It's hair to understand why the DEC is either unwilling or unable to give more information. I personally saw some trout on the Oatka this year, maybe fewer than in the past, I did see more herons this year and when I was able to watch they were probably scaring the heck out of the fish. I'm not sure what the maximum size fish a heron can eat but my best guess is pretty big. The Oatka and Spring Creek are too good to lose. Again, thanks for doing what so many more of us should be helping do.

[johnbenish]

In reading my msg, I see its hair? Sometimes Apple changes words.

[Nick Pionessa]

OK here are all of the charts they showed at the meeting in the order they showed them. first about the creeks and then about the Mergansers.

[NickConwall]

they're probly just doing basic water quality testing that any 2nd year college student can do; Like like using dip nets and small seines to sample macroinvertebrates (which are good bio-indicators of streams health) and your basic cardboard dipstick like you would use in your pool to test for pH 7 dissolved O2..
If it is the birds they should just give out nuisance permits to established bird hunters to take care of the problem like they do with the deer herds around here.

[jeffraz]

Nick,

Since the fish are almost all gone in both creeks did these "professionals" suggest that the birds will move elsewhere? Did anybody suggest a moratorium on fishing both streams so whatever is left can rebuild the population? I tried that over the phone last May and was told that too many people have a stake in the fishing the creeks. Perhaps more comments from fisherman and the obvious decline of fish might change their minds.

[Nick Pionessa]

no moratorium was mentioned. there is a meeting with the same DEC folks and Canandaigua TU so maybe we can suggest they make it catch and release anyway. honestly should have thought of that earlier. not that they would have done it but...

i know not fishing was mentioned but C&R should have been pressed for more.

[ANDYCAMPING]

This is sounding more and more like a cover up. We should really try and get TU involved in this one. We need some national presence to put pressure on the DEC. This is total horseshit. Ask any of the environmental professional here and this smells of not wanting to identify the real issues.

[Ryan Welch]

Andy I will be an ASTM certified "Environmental Professional" in March. Until then, I cannot comment on this.

[SteveKowalski]

AND THE OTHER COOL WILD FISH CREEK:

Wiscoy Creek angler diary program for 2015. The attached report * on the diary program and our electrofishing survey is in Adobe PDF format and should be readable on most computers. This is a fairly lengthy report...

"This brings us to the last of the potential causes for the observed decline in adult brown trout; avian predation, mammalian predation or predation by large brown trout. It is important to state, we have no hard data on the abundance of trout predators (other than large brown trout) found on Wiscoy Creek and much of this part of the discussion is based on anecdotal observations and potential impacts. In the 1990s, NYSDEC reintroduced river otters to the upper Genesee River watershed in Letchworth State Park, however we have not had extensive reports of their presence in Wiscoy Creek, nor have surveys been done to assess their distribution and abundance. Observations of great blue and green herons along Region 9 trout streams are common. Several trout captured in the 2015 electrofishing survey had open or healed heron wounds, indicating heron attacks may be fairly common in Wiscoy Creek, with an unknown number of fish being wounded or killed. One recently dead 16” trout was observed with a fresh heron wound in this year’s survey.
Angler reports and Fisheries staff observations of common mergansers have increased on Wiscoy Creek, and other Region 9 trout streams in the past 5-10 years. Common mergansers"

For those that didn't get the E-mail, this was attached with the TU newsletter - if you want a copy I'm sure he would send it to you.
If you have questions or comments on the report, please feel free to e-mail me at: [e-mail]



and further down the report:
So is it possible that merganser predation could be partially or primarily responsible for the adult trout decline in Wiscoy Creek? Diet and consumption studies on common mergansers show them to have an average consumption rate of approximately 0.88 lbs of fish per day. If one merganser fed exclusively on 5”-8” trout (average weight 0.176 lbs) in Wiscoy Creek for 8 months, it can be calculated that it could potentially eat 1,200, 5”-8” trout. However, they would more realistically move among other nearby streams and ponds to some extent during this period. Mergansers are capable of eating trout well over 8 inches (up to at least 13 inches). If we use the known drop in the biomass of adult trout (5”-13”) by half between 2012 and 2015 surveys (approximately 2,300 pounds) and an assumed biomass (based on past Wiscoy surveys) of other fish species in the stream (mainly white suckers) of 730 pounds and if the non-trout biomass was also reduced by half, then it could potentially have taken 14 common mergansers, feeding for 8 months, exclusively on Wiscoy Creek to reduce the adult trout population the observed amount. This calculation does not include potential predation throughout the winter months, if birds utilized ice-free portions of the stream, as they apparently did on nearby Spring Creek. Again, it is important to state that we have no idea how many mergansers were feeding on the creek and the calculations above certainly do have a number of assumptions. However, it does seem possible that mergansers could have had a significant impact on the Wiscoy Creek trout population.

[byronfishpaw]

Re the Wiscoy...umm just maybe sum Human predation? The harvesters don't fill out diaries. Need to change the rules on Wiscoy. And arrest those who violate them. No more fish for the table...see more full stringers of breeder fish than mergansers cuz > Trout; open April 1 - Oct 15, minimum size 10 inches, daily limit 3 per person. Put 3 in the car and get another 3. Its cool...Great regulation eh? Kill the breeders. These completely wild browns have plenty of smarts and woody cover to hide from a few birds. Plus they move all over that creek. Look in the mirror for the cause / answer.