Post by byronfishpaw on Mar 6, 2013 0:00:49 GMT -5
Overall I feel it was a beneficial meeting. The Army Core of Engineers (ACE) did a decent job of presenting the options, keeping the meeting in order and also explaining why they are even doing this – which is important to remember. They are tasked by Congress and working under the Great Lakes Fishery And Ecosystem Restoration, Section 506 of the Water Resources Development Act of 2000 (§ 1962d -22). So the purpose of allowing a fish passage is not just about Steelhead (although it becomes that). It is really about allowing for the natural (or as natural as it can be) movement of a number of other species – approximately 30 some other species. Myself and many others get so focused on the Trout that we forget this is also about the restoration of a river. Sort of.
I have to say that it is always hard for any agency to answer everything that gets thrown at them. Many questions dealt with future issues or things that are not part of their work. Nevertheless the ACE tried to answer and the moderator maintained control during the Q&A session, so it didn’t spiral out of control into a useless argument.
I was impressed by ACE Biologist Rich Ruby. He made a good case for river restoration and did understand and acknowledge unknown risks facing the resident Trout. Like Jim Markham he sees the crap shoot for the resident fish, but believes it is the best thing to do.
Also had in interesting discussion Mr. Ruby regarding lampreys. We discussed if the lampreys had less to eat their numbers would crash and maybe things would level out – Steelhead and lamprey populations would balance. There is some historical evidence of this being what occurred in Lake Ontario. For this to occur it would require very little Steelhead stocking and probably very little Steelhead catching –at least short term. Not a very popular idea.
Lots of interesting questions, some of which I will paraphrase:
“How do the Lampreys know when to spawn? When I get feeling uh, in the mood, I do it whenever. So how do we know when to try and stop them?”
“Will we be able to fish the entire Catt year round?”
“Why can’t we just put about 50 or so Steelhead upstream and see what happens.”
There were also some very good questions on effects on upstream fish, landowners concerns, control of invasive species, future funding and management, etc.
A number of questions focused on the sediment / pollution issue. ACE advised all of their studies as well as others showed no concerns regarding contaminated sediment behind dam. Several in audience did not buy that.
I strongly encouraged the audience to review the DECs 2006 study and to consider its discussion on the effects this may have on the current self sustaining populations of resident trout.
www.dec.ny.gov/docs/fish_marine_pdf/fishpasscattck.pdf
I also challenged the DEC (Jim and another person were there) to take a hard look at their inland regs if a passage does go in.
I must say I was really impressed by Jim Markham’s comments regarding what may happen to the resident fish. He said it is a stream by stream “crap shoot”. There are so many variables, and based on other studies, as well as their own knowledge of the water, they are not sure what impacts the Steelhead may have. They do feel there may be some declines in resident rainbows and browns in some areas, but not in others. It depends on the carrying capacity of the streams. That is apparently why the studies on the other waters have conflicting results. Jim did advise that no one in his office feels there will be a decline in the Brook Trout population. They feel the Brook Trout have found their niche and if they can successfully compete with the resident Brown and Bows they can compete against about any other Trout.
Also discussed with Jim an example of a stream from the 2006 report. It is in Ontario. A trib to an Erie trib. Nick P you know it and we have discussed it many a time. It has a great resident Trout population as well some Rainbow / Steelhead that stay around for about three years then migrate. It is a great fishery (I have fished it). I reminded Jim that water is a fish sanctuary – no fishing at all from September 30 to last Saturday in April. Again driving home that point regarding regulations.
The bottom line is we do need to do something. The dam is reportedly not meeting state safety requirements. Its failure would be a disaster. Lampreys already use Catt tribs as huge spawning grounds. I think Jim said that one of the Catt tribs has the largest population of lampreys of any NY Lake Erie trib. If they got upstream into even better water it could be a disaster. And the cost to use the lamprecide spray for the whole Catt is way too prohibitive. So any passage MUST exclude lampreys and be able to stop others. The plans they have would allow for complete closure of any fish passage if any new invasive came along.
That’s about it- tired of typing. I haven’t changed my mind, but I am way more open to the idea.
I have to say that it is always hard for any agency to answer everything that gets thrown at them. Many questions dealt with future issues or things that are not part of their work. Nevertheless the ACE tried to answer and the moderator maintained control during the Q&A session, so it didn’t spiral out of control into a useless argument.
I was impressed by ACE Biologist Rich Ruby. He made a good case for river restoration and did understand and acknowledge unknown risks facing the resident Trout. Like Jim Markham he sees the crap shoot for the resident fish, but believes it is the best thing to do.
Also had in interesting discussion Mr. Ruby regarding lampreys. We discussed if the lampreys had less to eat their numbers would crash and maybe things would level out – Steelhead and lamprey populations would balance. There is some historical evidence of this being what occurred in Lake Ontario. For this to occur it would require very little Steelhead stocking and probably very little Steelhead catching –at least short term. Not a very popular idea.
Lots of interesting questions, some of which I will paraphrase:
“How do the Lampreys know when to spawn? When I get feeling uh, in the mood, I do it whenever. So how do we know when to try and stop them?”
“Will we be able to fish the entire Catt year round?”
“Why can’t we just put about 50 or so Steelhead upstream and see what happens.”
There were also some very good questions on effects on upstream fish, landowners concerns, control of invasive species, future funding and management, etc.
A number of questions focused on the sediment / pollution issue. ACE advised all of their studies as well as others showed no concerns regarding contaminated sediment behind dam. Several in audience did not buy that.
I strongly encouraged the audience to review the DECs 2006 study and to consider its discussion on the effects this may have on the current self sustaining populations of resident trout.
www.dec.ny.gov/docs/fish_marine_pdf/fishpasscattck.pdf
I also challenged the DEC (Jim and another person were there) to take a hard look at their inland regs if a passage does go in.
I must say I was really impressed by Jim Markham’s comments regarding what may happen to the resident fish. He said it is a stream by stream “crap shoot”. There are so many variables, and based on other studies, as well as their own knowledge of the water, they are not sure what impacts the Steelhead may have. They do feel there may be some declines in resident rainbows and browns in some areas, but not in others. It depends on the carrying capacity of the streams. That is apparently why the studies on the other waters have conflicting results. Jim did advise that no one in his office feels there will be a decline in the Brook Trout population. They feel the Brook Trout have found their niche and if they can successfully compete with the resident Brown and Bows they can compete against about any other Trout.
Also discussed with Jim an example of a stream from the 2006 report. It is in Ontario. A trib to an Erie trib. Nick P you know it and we have discussed it many a time. It has a great resident Trout population as well some Rainbow / Steelhead that stay around for about three years then migrate. It is a great fishery (I have fished it). I reminded Jim that water is a fish sanctuary – no fishing at all from September 30 to last Saturday in April. Again driving home that point regarding regulations.
The bottom line is we do need to do something. The dam is reportedly not meeting state safety requirements. Its failure would be a disaster. Lampreys already use Catt tribs as huge spawning grounds. I think Jim said that one of the Catt tribs has the largest population of lampreys of any NY Lake Erie trib. If they got upstream into even better water it could be a disaster. And the cost to use the lamprecide spray for the whole Catt is way too prohibitive. So any passage MUST exclude lampreys and be able to stop others. The plans they have would allow for complete closure of any fish passage if any new invasive came along.
That’s about it- tired of typing. I haven’t changed my mind, but I am way more open to the idea.